If anything, this is a continuation of the third debate topic—no, I won't bring up Marx again. Instead, let's talk about love.
2-player 4-hour long board game Fog of Love offers a rich, intensive simulation of romcom-esque relationships from beginning to end. The game starts with each player designing a character using some "Trait" and "Occupation" cards, and then the players choose a scenario— work buddies trying to keep a professional love, summer fling turned long term, etc. Once the players have introduced themselves and established their relationship, they are put into a series of randomly drawn situations. The game works as follows:
1. Player A plays a situation card.
2. Situation card describes short narrative and gives both players a choice to make.
3. Choices are labelled A, B, and C, and each have specific rewards, drawbacks, and narrative effects.
4. Players need to predict the choice that their partner will make, or choose an option that benefits themselves. For example, they might want to choose A "Stay in tonight" because it will help their character, but hurt their partner, weakening the relationship. Or they predict that their partner will choose B "Go out," and so they do what will help the relationship.
5. Players make choices independently, both reveal choices, see how it affects stats. (Literally a wicked choice in which you do not have enough information because it is purposefully upside-down)
This game is brutally unforgiving. Not matching with your partner can result in pregnancy, injury, arrest, and even comically tragic amnesia. It is a game that really asks the player to understand their partner's wants and needs, to invest in a story, and to consider every decision they make. Without getting mushy gushy, playing it left me really reconsidering what it means to be in a committed relationship. Every decision mattered.
Now, not everyone wants to play an immersive, cooperative dating simulator. I get that. But if we want to consider this game as a framework for ethical decisions in games, we can understand its replay mechanic. This game doesn't have save states. But messing up leads to more interesting, catastrophic pathways. It allows players to attempt to resolve their previous actions through increased action, which is how mistakes work in the real world. Its replay mechanic is basically our IRL "apology" or "second chance" mechanic, which doesn't cheapen the poor decisions, but instead reinforces their effects. Oftentimes, the game's narrative momentum encourages players to make narratively-sound but mechanically-poor decisions.
I see few instances of this in games. One is Lisa: The Painful RPG. In this game, you can *spoilers* choose to save members of your party or lose limbs from your character. The game discourages save-spamming, though it has allowance for it. Still, it wants you to make such a decision and live with the consequences. It prioritizes the story over the mechanics.
I don't think every game should be permadeath, but I do think there's value in having games so enrapturing that you don't want to play them again. You don't need to play the alternative choices to know whether yours was the best, you need only see its effects to understand what could have been done differently. This is long, and I should stop. Talk Kant to me.
While the roguelike genre often either doesn't have a save function or just has a quicksave feature (creating a save that is deleted upon loading it and normally forcing the player to quit the game, equivalent to putting the game down and coming back later), they're rarely known for having a narrative beyond a blurb that gives the barest context for your dungeoncrawl. It would be interesting to see a developer explore the possibilities of "narrative roguelike" in the vein of Fog of Love.
Purely because I was on the negative replay side, i would like to argue for replays, but based more on the general feelings that a player experiences during. Although a game might be so encompassing that you don't want/need to play it again, when the game is attempting moral decision making, I think there is something to be said about the gut-feelings a player experiences once they make their choice. An anti-replay contender might argue that the gut-feeling is stronger when you know you can't go back and change your decision. However, I believe that there is something to be gained by the individual when they replay each decision and contemplate the gut-feelings each choice brings. When only attempting one…
@mgj I find the concern about games being too realistic fascinating, but I think that it's less about the magic circle established by the game and more about how uncomfortable the players are willing to let the game make them. I'm not saying that designers should make horribly realistic games that function as emotional torture, but I am saying that if players are looking for morally challenging gameplay, then they should have that available. I think this framework allows for a spectrum of more or less emotionally taxing games, and that Fog of Love is one example of perhaps the more unforgiving end of the spectrum. @Patrick Lou 's example from Undertale would fall somewhere on the other end of…
I don't know if you've had a chance to play Undertale yet, so spoilers for the first hour below:
Also, another spoiler warning: if you haven't tried to save scum Undertale you might also want to try that before reading the rest of this comment.
Undertale's approach to save scumming, as I understand it so far (~1 hour) honestly seems quite original and has me thinking a lot about the concerns of replay and choice. At the point in the game where you have to fight Toriel, I ended up killing her because I wasn't sure if there was any way to spare her. Immediately afterward, I quit the game, looked up how to spare her, reloaded and went to…
I'm disappointed by the lack of Marx, but still I enjoyed your post! I'm interested in your idea that the replay mechanic of the game can be essentially equivalent to our "IRL 'apology' or 'second chance' mechanic." This suggests to me a blurring of the neat magic circle that often circumscribes games as something separate from ordinary life-- it would be our own real-life desire to make amends with (in this case) another real person that would drive the game's repetition.
I'd never heard of Fog of Love before, but I'm really intrigued-- when I looked it up, one of the first articles I found was entitled "Playing 'Fog Of Love' Made Me And My Husband Break Up' ( https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurenorsini/2017/11/20/playing-fog-of-love-made-me-and-my-husband-break-up/#a0b7edc17dcd…